This week, hosts Markos Moulitsas and Kerry Eleveld welcomed NBC News political director and moderator of Meet the Press Chuck Todd and staff writer Dave Neiwert, an expert on white supremacy, right-wing militias, and domestic terrorism.
First, Markos and Kerry interviewed Chuck about the role the media played in enabling and creating the menace of Donald Trump. As a longtime media professional, Chuck explained that he sees himself as a “custodian” of sorts at Meet the Press, and he understands that the news media bears some responsibility for the meteoric rise of Donald Trump: “Donald Trump turned this all into a contact sport—to the point of absurdity.” Chuck also harked back to the early 2011 shooting of Democratic Arizona Rep. Gabby Giffords and reflected on what a pivotal moment it was for both right-wing extremism and violence and for the nation at large: “In hindsight, we shouldn’t have accepted this premise that this was a one-off, isolated incident, that this isn’t the start of something. When now, when you look at it over a ten-year period … we had a crossroads.”
Even after the violent attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump-supporting election results-deniers, 147 House Republicans signed on to reject the results of the Electoral College. As Kerry mused about how to hold them accountable for lies and dodging accountability in the future, she asked, “Should Washington journalists reevaluate how they’re covering these Republicans?”
Chuck responded:
I do not think anybody who was a seditionist has a role in democracy right now … I think they have lost their ability to be taken seriously in policy debates right now.
He went on:
I think we have to be realistic in what is the actual debate. We shouldn’t let … the Republicans frame the arguments quite a bit on various policy debates, particularly on immigration and healthcare … I’m saying it here, hold me to it in a year—but I want to get back to tackling issues that way—[where] it’s not about whether there’s a left or right. It’s: Are there multiple ways to solve this problem? Well then, let’s hear the multiple ways. We need to try to get out of the left/right, red/blue paradigm.
Markos also mentioned the rise of a fact-checking culture among news media and expressed hopes that it continues in this era of extreme disinformation. Chuck agreed and offered advice to his fellow journalists on the importance of maintaining neutrality and fairness in their reporting:
We’re not here to be popular; we shouldn’t try to be popular … Everybody who plays access journalism on Capitol Hill—no matter how good that source is, someday, your integrity is going to get challenged because that source is going to want payback. It’s the challenge of being a journalist, right? You’ve got to know, alright, these sources, can we have a dispassionate relationship and still have a trustworthy source? Or are you going to let that go? I got a lot more comfortable—I’ll be flat out honest—when I sort of said, Look, people are going to get angry with me. That’s okay. People are angry sometimes at the messenger. I’ve got to accept it. If you worry too much, you will start to almost cater to the critics too much.
On responsible coverage of Trump during Biden’s inauguration, Chuck had this to say:
We’re going to cover it, we’re going to air what we think is newsworthy to the viewers. But [Trump] is not going to get live access to any platform … it’s going to be an all-day reminder of how classless Donald Trump is. Because every moment, we’re going to have to note, ‘and here’s the traditional—oh, but no President Trump.’ It will be a serial reminder all day of just how un-American he’s acting. I mean, I don’t know any other way to put it. We have a lot of fights in this country about politics and polarization, but we all thought there was some agreement on the story of America. This is the first president where there wasn’t. And in that sense, I think it’ll be a constant reminder of how unusual, and frankly, hopefully an outlier, this four years was.
Segueing into a discussion about the narrative of America driven by Trump, as well as the fervency of his base, Markos said, “This whole idea of ‘that’s not who we are’—it is exactly who we are. The question is, can we be better?” Kerry agreed: “It is worth knowing what’s underneath there in order to be better. Sometimes you’ve got to take a stark look in the mirror.”
Dave joined Markos and Kerry for the second half of the show, helping shed some more light on the dangerous aspect of America that we all saw two weeks ago during the siege on the Capitol. Many of these Trump-supporting attackers viewed the assault as a success and feel newly emboldened to take what they believe is rightfully theirs.
On their seeming expectation that their behavior would be universally well-received, as evidenced by several of those arrested feeling as though their actions were in the right, Dave noted that this tracks with fundamental beliefs these people apparently hold:
This is really a fundamental component of right-wing authoritarian personalities. There are basically three attitudinal behavior clusters that comprise right-wing authoritarianism: the first is authoritarian submission to the great leader, the second is authoritarian aggression directed against anyone who doesn’t submit, and the third and most important component is conventionalism. They believe that they represent the ‘real’ America. And they believe that there are millions of people out there—the silent majority—on their side. They certainly believe that the cops were on their side—and this is something really endemic to the Proud Boys in particular.
The trio also discussed the significance of disinformation, which has been amplified in unchecked echo chambers like Parler, in driving these movements. However, with many of these apps now offline, many right-wing groups have taken to dark web to communicate with one another. Now, companies are increasingly turning to deplatforming as a way to stem the spread of disinformation—though it is far from a comprehensive solution. As Dave said:
Deplatforming is a useful tool, but it’s a blunt instrument. It can be useful for turning off the spigot of disinformation and misinformation that flows from the cesspits, including from Donald Trump’s account. That really is a good thing, because there are certainly powerful indications that just shutting down that account had significant effect … but it’s not a substitute for the hard work of actually going after and confronting the problem head on.
The Obama administration had tried to crack down on white supremacist and far-right groups, but were shut down by Trump.
Ultimately, the bottom line is, Dave noted, that the very existence of these armed groups is illegal. As he said, “Every state in the union prohibits private vigilante armies … these vigilante militias are accountable to no one, and that is not anything the framers had in mind. They [make people think] the Second Amendment protects the existence of these militias; it does not.”
Dave stated that it is possible to prosecute and outlaw militia groups, though it is up to law enforcement agencies to enforce these laws.
Looking ahead and wrapping up the segment, Markos expressed concern about the risk of growing political violence. “This is the kind of political violence you don’t see in this country … that shattered norms … I think it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better.”
Ending the segment on a positive note, Kerry said, “The Biden administration has the opportunity to come out and address this now … so it does provide this opportunity in this moment to actually go after it rather concretely and be pretty bold about it—and any pushback you get, sorry, we’re not ceding the conversation to you because this posture is exactly what got us to the insurrection at the Capitol.”
Watch the full episode here:
Source: Daily Kos
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